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 Madame Élisabeth 

How was she?
A religious and a saint 75%  75%  [ 15 ]
One more extravagant "princesse de Versailles" 10%  10%  [ 2 ]
A very ultra-conservative catholic that ruined the French Crown 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
An equilibrius person, not very conservative or revolutionary 10%  10%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 20

 Madame Élisabeth 
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I think that the word saint tends to be misused sometimes and assumed to mean something other than its strictly literal meaning :).

I am surprised that she was so friendly with Artois given his propensity for vice but I suppose she was his sister.

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:49 am
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Her friendship with Artois is all the more proof to me that she was a saint, since she loved him is spite of his faults, looking at his good qualities.

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:55 am
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Exact Therese :lol:

She loved his political ideas and his vision of the revolution... she was for a repression from outside :D

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:15 pm
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Louis-Charles wrote:
Exact Therese :lol:

She loved his political ideas and his vision of the revolution... she was for a repression from outside :D


Yes, they were politically in complete agreement.

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:23 pm
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If so there must have been some disagreement with her brother as to the position to be adopted towards the republican demands...? I know the émigrés felt Louis XVI was giving in too much though it was easier for them to say that from abroad of course!

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:22 pm
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baron de batz wrote:
If so there must have been some disagreement with her brother as to the position to be adopted towards the republican demands...? I know the émigrés felt Louis XVI was giving in too much though it was easier for them to say that from abroad of course!


Oh, yes, Elisabeth was always disagreeing with Louis XVI and with Marie-Antoinette as to how to deal with the Revolution.

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:24 pm
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Exact...Marie-Antoinette spoke about it in a letter...she said that she avoided to speak with her about policy in the Tuilerie :D

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:07 pm
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Therese wrote:
Her friendship with Artois is all the more proof to me that she was a saint, since she loved him is spite of his faults, looking at his good qualities.


Very well said, Therese :wink: !

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Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:40 pm
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Jules de Polignac wrote:
Therese wrote:
Her friendship with Artois is all the more proof to me that she was a saint, since she loved him is spite of his faults, looking at his good qualities.


Very well said, Therese :wink: !


Thank you. :wink: :wink:

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Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:41 pm
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Didn't she love her brother ( Louis XVI ) so much that she chose to stay at his court and take on the hardships of the revolution with him ? Am i wrong ?
Either way i could not vote as i don't think she was a saint because everyone has their faults , but i do think she was a good person and very pious. :)


Mon May 21, 2007 5:26 am
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oceane wrote:
Didn't she love her brother ( Louis XVI ) so much that she chose to stay at his court and take on the hardships of the revolution with him ? Am i wrong ?
Either way i could not vote as i don't think she was a saint because everyone has their faults , but i do think she was a good person and very pious. :)


Yes, oceane, that is why she chose to stay. And even saints have faults, but they persevere in spite of their faults. :wink: :)

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Mon May 21, 2007 12:34 pm
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I don't thik she was a saint, although she was extremely devout. Politically speaking, she tended, in my opinion, to be quite extremist, advocating for instance civil war to put an end to the revolutionnary troubles. Marie-Antoinette, if she was prone to caution off the king against reforms, had an acute sense of diplomacy. To my mind, she stirred up troubles inside the royal family with her stubborn political view : it all boiled down to setting herself apart from Marie-Antoinette, who was supposed to be responsible for the royal family's unpopularity. It's the only thing I would charge her with, but that's a human behaviour : a tragic situation can bring up rivalries between the ones that go through it.
Then, I find "saint" very excessive, because she was a mere woman, like Marie-Antoinette, with her failings and her limits and she was not beyond all reproaches. That's said, she was a very honourable person, considering particularly the courage she displayed before her death ( a courage inspired by her very strong faith).


Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:32 pm
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Ludy wrote:
I don't thik she was a saint, although she was extremely devout. Politically speaking, she tended, in my opinion, to be quite extremist, advocating for instance civil war to put an end to the revolutionnary troubles. Marie-Antoinette, if she was prone to caution off the king against reforms, had an acute sense of diplomacy. To my mind, she stirred up troubles inside the royal family with her stubborn political view : it all boiled down to setting herself apart from Marie-Antoinette, who was supposed to be responsible for the royal family's unpopularity. It's the only thing I would charge her with, but that's a human behaviour : a tragic situation can bring up rivalries between the ones that go through it.
Then, I find "saint" very excessive, because she was a mere woman, like Marie-Antoinette, with her failings and her limits and she was not beyond all reproaches. That's said, she was a very honourable person, considering particularly the courage she displayed before her death ( a courage inspired by her very strong faith).


Ludy, you sound like you are quite an authority on saints.

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Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:35 pm
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Therese wrote:
Ludy wrote:
I don't thik she was a saint, although she was extremely devout. Politically speaking, she tended, in my opinion, to be quite extremist, advocating for instance civil war to put an end to the revolutionnary troubles. Marie-Antoinette, if she was prone to caution off the king against reforms, had an acute sense of diplomacy. To my mind, she stirred up troubles inside the royal family with her stubborn political view : it all boiled down to setting herself apart from Marie-Antoinette, who was supposed to be responsible for the royal family's unpopularity. It's the only thing I would charge her with, but that's a human behaviour : a tragic situation can bring up rivalries between the ones that go through it.
Then, I find "saint" very excessive, because she was a mere woman, like Marie-Antoinette, with her failings and her limits and she was not beyond all reproaches. That's said, she was a very honourable person, considering particularly the courage she displayed before her death ( a courage inspired by her very strong faith).


Ludy, you sound like you are quite an authority on saints.


I was merely stating my opinion as it is indicated several times in my post ("to my mind", "I find"...). What more can I do to be more explicite about it ? It seems obvious that I am defending my opinion when I write, as we all do, since the whole thread aims at having people give their opinion. That's said, if you mean to retrain the forum to the ones' agreeing with you, the least of the politeness would be to post a warning in this forum, instead of being disagreeable to the ones' taking part in it. But of course, that's only my very humble opinion, I don't want to sound like I am an authourity on that subject ...


Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:55 pm
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Ludy wrote:
Therese wrote:
Ludy wrote:
I don't thik she was a saint, although she was extremely devout. Politically speaking, she tended, in my opinion, to be quite extremist, advocating for instance civil war to put an end to the revolutionnary troubles. Marie-Antoinette, if she was prone to caution off the king against reforms, had an acute sense of diplomacy. To my mind, she stirred up troubles inside the royal family with her stubborn political view : it all boiled down to setting herself apart from Marie-Antoinette, who was supposed to be responsible for the royal family's unpopularity. It's the only thing I would charge her with, but that's a human behaviour : a tragic situation can bring up rivalries between the ones that go through it.
Then, I find "saint" very excessive, because she was a mere woman, like Marie-Antoinette, with her failings and her limits and she was not beyond all reproaches. That's said, she was a very honourable person, considering particularly the courage she displayed before her death ( a courage inspired by her very strong faith).


Ludy, you sound like you are quite an authority on saints.


I was merely stating my opinion as it is indicated several times in my post ("to my mind", "I find"...). What more can I do to be more explicite about it ? It seems obvious that I am defending my opinion when I write, as we all do, since the whole thread aims at having people give their opinion. That's said, if you mean to retrain the forum to the ones' agreeing with you, the least of the politeness would be to post a warning in this forum, instead of being disagreeable to the ones' taking part in it. But of course, that's only my very humble opinion, I don't want to sound like I am an authourity on that subject ...


Oh, I am sorry if I did not sound polite, Ludy. You just sound like you know so much about what makes a saint a saint. I thought a saint was someone who practiced the virtues of faith, hope and charity to an heroic degree, regardless of political views. Pope Pius VII thought that, too, which is why he said that, in his opinion, Madame Elisabeth was a saint.

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Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:02 pm
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