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 Maria Carolina 
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didn't maria carolina's granddaughter marry Louis's brother Provence? i remember reading that in Madame Royale. That made her Madame Royale's cousin(?) and sister-in-law. very confusing.


Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:45 pm
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Maria Carolina's granddaughter Caroline marries Artois' son, the Duc de Berry. Yes, she and MTC were first cousins once removed, as well as sisters-in-law.

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Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:53 pm
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Post Re:
Jules de Polignac wrote:
It wasn't Maria Carolina, but Marie Antoinette had a sister, very pretty and her mother's favorite, that became ill and never married..Who was it?


Marie Christine (Mimi), was their mothers favorite because they shared the same birthday, but she was married and had a baby but it died and wasn't able to have anymore. So it can't be her.i believe it was either marianne or elisabeth. elisabeth i think had a smallpox, survived it but afterwards, the scars remaining meant that she was no longer valid in the European marriage market. She was said to be pretty but extremely vain prior to having the smallpox. Then again, I'm not sure... im still trying to catch up on all the names of her siblings. Whew!

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Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:54 am
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
yes, the one who became ill and never married was Elizabeth, who was beautiful before being disfigured by smallpox; but then she couldn't married. I read Maria Theresa tried also to arrange a marriage between Elizabeth and Louis XV together with one beween MA and Louis Auguste, but Louis XV didn't want to marry again.
However, the favourite of Maria Theresa was said to be Maria Christina, who was born on the 13th of May like her mother (and the day before MY birthday...ahem!).

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Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:54 pm
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
Was Maria Carolina jealous of Marie Antoinette? I read in the Fraser book that one of her sisters was jealous of Marie Antoinette.

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Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:55 pm
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
I don't think it was Maria Carolina...she was her favourite sister and they loved each other very much for all their life, even if they didn't see each other (I think) after Maria Carolina's departure to Naple. They certainly wrote to each other, and Maria Carolina was shattered after she received the news of MA's execution.
I

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Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:06 pm
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
I would be shattered too my any member of my family was executed.That's so sad. :(

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Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:40 pm
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
Maria Christina was not exactly grief-stricken.

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Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:07 am
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
Ah I see. Was it Maria Christina who was the jealous one? Or did she expect her sister to be executed.

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Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:14 pm
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
Maria Christina and Marie Antoinette didn't have such a great relationship actually...when Maria Christina visited MA in France, the latter wasn't very happy. But I don't know if she jealous, she didn't have reasons to be in the end, because she had always been treated with a particolar favour by her mother. But it can always be!

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Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:34 pm
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
Could it have been Elizbeth that was jealous?


Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:25 pm
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
I'm not sure WHERE I read/heard this so it might be complete nonsense and don't laugh if it is lol but didn't one of Marie Antoinette's sisters (not sure which one) have an affair with her brother's (think it was Joseph) wife? I think the wife may have been Spanish and died young? Once again, this could be totally untrue!!! :oops:

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Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:28 am
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
Princess2 wrote:
I'm not sure WHERE I read/heard this so it might be complete nonsense and don't laugh if it is lol but didn't one of Marie Antoinette's sisters (not sure which one) have an affair with her brother's (think it was Joseph) wife? I think the wife may have been Spanish and died young? Once again, this could be totally untrue!!! :oops:

Such a rumor did existed, see under the Joseph (entourage) topic! :idea:

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Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:40 am
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Post Re:
Pimprenelle wrote:

"She also was an erudite and an intellectual, she enjoyed politics, unlike Antoinette... and she was a freemason. So, when the French revolution killed her beloved little sister, she felt somewhat guilty...

That's so complicated ! Most of the freemasons really were idealistic people, they wanted liberty, equality and fraternity... that still is French leit-motiv. But some of them were fanatics, as the Jacobins were fanatics too, French fell into terror !"[/quote]

**************************************************************************************************************

By Freemason, do you mean a member of the Eastern Star? I too have read that Maria Carolina at first sympathized with the egalitarian sentiments of the Enlightenment, but was subsequently so horrified by the cruel torture and execution of her little sister that she tried to wage war or something against the revolutionaries.
Interesting,
Ray

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Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:26 am
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Post Re: Maria Carolina
Free Masonry was founded on one single motive: to destroy the Catholic Church. Their principle goal had always been to eliminate--if not the Church itself---the power of the Church. At that time, the Church was the most powerful entity in Europe, with direct influence over nearly every aspect of life.... Later, the Masons embraced the ideals of the Enlightenment and Democracy (indeed, one might say they had a hand in inventing these new philosophies) as a means to this end. They were not specifically against monarchy, but in Catholic kingdoms such as France, it was necessary to remove the king from power in order to remove the Church from power. It was (and still is) forbidden for a practicing Catholic to also be a Free Mason. This is why Louis and Antoinette were never, and could never be, Masons. It is also why so many liberal aristocrats were. If Maria Carolina was a high-ranking Mason, it must have been because she was against the Church.

I think this must have been a grave mistake (even foolish) on her part, because her own position and power were directly tied to that of the Church.

One should also note, that the Revolution specifically targeted the Church and went to great lengths to stamp it out in France---a good indicator that the Masons were at work within the Revolution.

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Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:54 am
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