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 What went wrong with her upbringing? 
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Post What went wrong with her upbringing?
I remember reading somewhere that Marie-Antoinette was not meant for a foreign wedding match but it turned out that in fact she had to be the one for it. Also, if I remember well, it took about 3 years until Louis XV finally formally proposed (if I can say so, though not for himself :lol: ). By the way, is it true that first there was a though that Louis XV would marry Marie-Antoinette or that's just a gossip?

And so, there we have a teenage girl who has problems with reading and writing, her attention span is short, she would learn only if amused, her main worry is to learn how to walk gracefully...Her mother keeps her in her chambers weeks before departure to instruct on how to behave.

Is this not too late? Was Marie-Theresa too busy with her state that she forgot to take control over her children's proper education in politics? If you intend to marry them off for a political reason, should not you take care of that beforehand? Was that a result that Marie-Antoinette insisted on her own way of court life and politics which went wrong because she did not know what was the right thing to do? Wasn't the etiquette of Versailles known in Vienna and was not the young princess trained for it, why was it such shock for her when she arrived?

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Last edited by Ele on Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:01 pm
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Etiquette in Vienna and in Versailles were two different things. Of course, Maria Antonia von Habsburg Lothringen was used to royal court habits, and she was destined to be a queen someday somewhere.

But etiquette in Versailles had nothing to do with normal court rituals. It had more to do with theatrical scenes starring royals. So the fact that Marie Antoinette could not get used to it maybe was the sign of her mental sanity ! :lol:

Of course, the little girl she was at 14 (she looked like 12) was wild and unable to focuse on any serious subject. So are many children, after all, always wanting to play and have fun.

Should you have doub about Antoinette's mental abilities, just read the letters she wrote. The first ones she sent to her mother are full of mistakes, indeed, and her scripture is very uneasy. But she rapidly improved herself.

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Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:07 pm
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I don't want to question her mental abilities but the training of them she received :lol: Improvement is good but it was too late. She could have kept the whole bunch of ministers and royal relatives under her high-heel is she wanted to and not have gone to the guilottine!

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Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:34 am
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I do not think it is as simple as that ... many other factors have resulted in her death :wink:

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Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:09 am
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Louis-Charles wrote:
I do not think it is as simple as that ... many other factors have resulted in her death :wink:


But she could have tried harder to avoid them.... :? If she had a stronger sense of herself. I somehow feel she was a big child for the bigger part of her life.

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Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:10 am
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It's too easy to say 200 years after that she could do such a thing ... she was in a very complex and very dangerous situation, and was not prepared for that ... others Queens would have suffered events.

Even Coursac, who criticize Marie-Antoinette in their book, "Louis XVI et Marie-Antoinette, vie conjugale, vie politique", have recognized her intelligence... that is to say :wink:

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Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:23 am
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She was intelligent, no doubt. Sadly, some things could not be fixed.

I have a question here: during her trial she said she did not know the country was in disaster because when she asked for money she received double what she asked for. Is this true that she did not know? Did nobody bothered about it in the royal family? If she gave money for charity, that's good, but what about the broader picture of country's finances?

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Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:28 am
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Quote:
She could have kept the whole bunch of ministers and royal relatives under her high-heel is she wanted to and not have gone to the guilottine!

So, why did Louis XVI not avoid the guillotine ? He had an extremely proper education...

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Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:36 am
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Ele wrote :

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I have a question here: during her trial she said she did not know the country was in disaster because when she asked for money she received double what she asked for. Is this true that she did not know? Did nobody bothered about it in the royal family? If she gave money for charity, that's good, but what about the broader picture of country's finances?


A queen should not manage the finances of the country ... if she did it she was criticized. :?
She has not spent more than the other queens, and it is the American war that has ruined France.
The revolution did not take place following the Marie-Antoinette's expenditure, it is much more complicated...

Even Necker who was popular and competent in finance could not solve the crisis ... you do not think that Marie-Antoinette should have resolved this without problems?

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Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:51 am
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That is one thing that always annoys me, when people argue, "they were her people, she was their queen, she was supposed to solve their problems!"

1. They were not her people, they were her husband's. She was the Queen of France, but she was an Austrian, and the people always remembered that.

2. It wasn't her job! Even if she wanted to (which she did to some extant) she had no political power. Her job was to have children. Boys. Heirs. And she did, two of them. Plus two girls.

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Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:36 am
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Pimprenelle wrote:
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She could have kept the whole bunch of ministers and royal relatives under her high-heel is she wanted to and not have gone to the guilottine!

So, why did Louis XVI not avoid the guillotine ? He had an extremely proper education...


I assume because the state was rotten long before he became king. It is said only a financial genius could have saved France, Louis XVI was not the one. Which is sad, he is not reposnible for the way of life led by the previous kings!

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Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:49 am
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Monsieur Andre wrote:
That is one thing that always annoys me, when people argue, "they were her people, she was their queen, she was supposed to solve their problems!"

1. They were not her people, they were her husband's. She was the Queen of France, but she was an Austrian, and the people always remembered that.

2. It wasn't her job! Even if she wanted to (which she did to some extant) she had no political power. Her job was to have children. Boys. Heirs. And she did, two of them. Plus two girls.



And Marie Lescinzka was a 'Polonese', and so on. France did have hatred for foreign queens. I wonder if it worked both ways.

Poor Marie Antoinette. She had no real political power but was blamed for everything under the sun. I wonder if she had become mother earlier than she did, would the situation be different? I mean, would her reputation have improved?

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Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:52 am
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Ele wrote:
Poor Marie Antoinette. She had no real political power but was blamed for everything under the sun. I wonder if she had become mother earlier than she did, would the situation be different? I mean, would her reputation have improved?


I think it was Pimprenelle or Therese who note that once Antoinette had children, she was in a greater position of power than ever as the mother of the Children of France. People felt threatened by her and the besmirching of her character grew ever stronger from that point on.

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Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:17 pm
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Ele wrote :
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I wonder if she had become mother earlier than she did, would the situation be different? I mean, would her reputation have improved?

I don't think...Having children earlier would have been a little better for her because she would have avoided bullying, but the finances of the kingdom would have been identical.
New ideas did not need heir to the crown. :?

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Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:59 pm
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EM Vidal had this post on MA's childhood:
http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... dhood.html


Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:45 pm
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