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 Philippe-Egalité 
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
What I mean to say is that I really don't think he was sorry for voting for Louis XVI's death. Perhaps he really was, however from what I see, he doesn't really seem to regret it that much.

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Wed May 07, 2008 5:57 pm
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
I am reading your posts and I’m shame to admit that I don’t know almost anything about this man. :oops: I’ve watched one movie about one English royalist (was it madam Rolan?) who was connected to the man I think you are talking about and she was very disappointed to find out that he had vote for death of the king. I agree with Ludy in the matter of forgiveness but as I remember one vote more decided about king’s execution.

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Wed May 07, 2008 6:04 pm
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
yes, its very said, and you are right about who we speak of.


Wed May 07, 2008 8:04 pm
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
Hellou_Librorum wrote:
That's essentially anyone babbling nonsense if they had a gun to their head. I believe Philippe did that to avoid his death if he could.


I agree - trying to save his own skin if he possibly could. But, maybe he did feel guilty and remorseful - was his not the deciding vote in sending Louis XVI to the scaffold? Could anyone make this decision lightly and not doubt themselves after? Anyway, the Revolution didn't go the way he wanted (he wasn't made King) and it's strangely ironic that he was guillotined himself after ensuring his cousin was sent to the scaffold. I think he got what he deserved.

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From the Declaration of Arbroath (Scottish Declaration of Independence), 1320.


Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:01 am
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
I think he was kind of a pathetic man who helped bring down the prestige of the monarchy in his own self-interest, but then quickly was waaaay out of his league. I don't credit him with any more damaging plotting against the monarchy, such as hoarding food to cause riots, but the group of nobles who were scheming against the monarchy out of self-interest, in order to get more power for themselves, were instrumental in undermining the authority of the monarchy. I think his greatest contribution to the Revolution was providing the Palais Royal as a place free from the police where people could speak freely and radically. As the Revolution progresses and he tries to becomes more radical to try to keep up, I think he was just kind of pathetic, and frankly I think others did to. I forget where I read it, but there was one Montagnard (the radicals in the Convention, the group of Robespierre, Danton, Marat, Saint-Just, Camille Desmoulins, etc) that said to another that they wouldn't blame him for abstaining or not voting for the king's death, that even they were kind of appalled by his voting for it.

Regarding the King's trial: 288 voted against death (imprisonment or exile), 72 voted for death but with some kind of delay and reservation, and 361 voted for immediate execution. So when you add it up, those voting against death and death with delay bring it to 360 to 361, it really wasn't quite that clear-cut and Orléans was not a deciding vote, as those 72 deputies did actually vote for death.

That said, I have a hard time saying that anyone who got guillotined "deserved" it. (Except maybe Hébert. He had it coming.)

ETA: Oh, Marija Vera, regarding the movie. You're talking about L'Anglaise et le Duc (The Lady and the Duke in English), which was about Grace Elliot, the Duc's British ex-mistress.


Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:17 am
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
Yes, I think I was a bit harsh in saying he got what he deserved in being guillotined - I'm a Royalist so certainly don't agree with or condone the French Revolution, or the methods the Revolutionaries used to achieve their ends. However, this man was a turncoat who played his part in not just the execution of his King, but members of his own family too.

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From the Declaration of Arbroath (Scottish Declaration of Independence), 1320.


Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:57 pm
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
The Duc d'Orleans or 'Philippe Egalite' as he called himself was a sly, greedy, manipulative pig of a man who felt absolutely nothing for the suffering of others. He was a pure animal. Have I not read in other posts on this site that he himself withheld bread or flour from the people so that popular discontent with the King would be intensified only to release it later after it was spoiled and useless? Did I not also read here that when Princesse de Lamballe's head was brought to his window that he merely got up, looked at it, and then sat back down to finish his supper? He was a primary conspirator behind the revolution and, in my opinion, got off easily by being merely guillotined. Think of what happened to the dauphin and of the torturous circumstances that the queen lived under during the time of her imprisonment leading up to her execution. Perhaps he was a sociopath, but even this is no excuse. He had no heart as well as no conscience. The fact that a descendant (or relative?) of his feels the same way is proof to me that redemption is truly possible for all things, no matter how vile and inhuman they may have been. I must also agree with the Comte de Provence in that the majority of people in this world are at the very least, susceptible to ego-based vices and , therefore, false and useless. Like Hellou_Librorum, I used to feel the opposite way and this tells me that she is both a happy person and a relatively sheltered one who has not yet had the opportunity of encountering raw human nature. If only it were otherwise! In spite of this fact, I still believe that Good reigns supreme ultimately and that people will one day rise above their prideful animal mentalities and begin to live beautifully (if the human ego with modern technology at its disposal does not destroy us all first). So much for 'Philippe Egalite'... :(

Sincerely,
Ray

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Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:44 am
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
Ray wrote:
The Duc d'Orleans or 'Philippe Egalite' as he called himself was a sly, greedy, manipulative pig of a man who felt absolutely nothing for the suffering of others. He was a pure animal. Have I not read in other posts on this site that he himself withheld bread or flour from the people so that popular discontent with the King would be intensified only to release it later after it was spoiled and useless? Did I not also read here that when Princesse de Lamballe's head was brought to his window that he merely got up, looked at it, and then sat back down to finish his supper? He was a primary conspirator behind the revolution and, in my opinion, got off easily by being merely guillotined. Think of what happened to the dauphin and of the torturous circumstances that the queen lived under during the time of her imprisonment leading up to her execution. Perhaps he was a sociopath, but even this is no excuse. He had no heart as well as no conscience. The fact that a descendant (or relative?) of his feels the same way is proof to me that redemption is truly possible for all things, no matter how vile and inhuman they may have been. I must also agree with the Comte de Provence in that the majority of people in this world are at the very least, susceptible to ego-based vices and , therefore, false and useless. Like Hellou_Librorum, I used to feel the opposite way and this tells me that she is both a happy person and a relatively sheltered one who has not yet had the opportunity of encountering raw human nature. If only it were otherwise! In spite of this fact, I still believe that Good reigns supreme ultimately and that people will one day rise above their prideful animal mentalities and begin to live beautifully (if the human ego with modern technology at its disposal does not destroy us all first). So much for 'Philippe Egalite'... :(

Sincerely,
Ray



Yes, he held up the flour in the Palais Royale stores room.


Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:22 am
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
Thank you for sharing, Comte, and for the general grace and decency with which you conduct yourself.

Sincerely,
Ray

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"...little did I dream that I should have lived to see such disasters fallen upon her...I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult."
Edmund Burke, (1790)


Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:01 am
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
Thank you :D


Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:40 pm
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
I remember reading that this scumbag was responsible for not only inciting but actually paying some of the crowd that marched to Versailles in October 1789. Done through his "agents" or people in his pay. Supposedly many men were dressed in women's clothing as it was known that the King would not allow his gaurds to fire upon a crowd of women. I actually think he enjoyed his part in the downfall of the king. And I do not think he cared a bit what harm he caused or to who.


Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:26 am
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
As far as I know, there is no hard historical evidence that Olreans paid agitators or withheld grain to incite the mob. These are merely suspicions. The Queen had long suspected him of subversive activities, but I don't think even she had any definite proof. It's probably safe to say that he was behind a lot of the viscious pamphlets printed about her.

One tiny scrap of evidence: Arthur Young, the British journalist, reports in June of 1789 (before the fall of the Bastille) that rumors were circulating around Paris that some of the rioters were being paid to stir up the crowds. He does not venture a guess as to 'who' was paying these agitators, only that it was being said they were paid.

Another interesting note: The Duc d'Orleans' son, the Duc de Chartres (later Louis-Philippe) turned against his father after the infamous vote, and deserted France and the Revolution, along with his brothers and a sister. It was this defection that led to Orleans' eventual arrest and execution---so even the creep's family abandoned him.

Another thought: the execution (murder) of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette was a disasterous mistake for the Revolutionaries. It solidified the opposition, turned all of Europe against them, and finally pushed Great Britian off the fence in favor of the Royalists.

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Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:19 am
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
Hellou_Librorum wrote:
They were both vapid and cowards! It's pathetic, crawling over your own cousin and your own brother just to save your own skin! It is absolutely despicable, cruel, selfish and I emphasize selfish horrendous and hateful! They were no better than the revolutionary leaders themselves! :evil:


yes, that is true :(

reine :angel6:


Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:03 am
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
Christophe wrote:
Another interesting note: The Duc d'Orleans' son, the Duc de Chartres (later Louis-Philippe) turned against his father after the infamous vote, and deserted France and the Revolution, along with his brothers and a sister. It was this defection that led to Orleans' eventual arrest and execution---so even the creep's family abandoned him.


I'm not really all that clear on events after the Revolution to be honest, but is the above-mentioned Duc de Chartres not the same who usurped the throne from Charles X after the second Bourbon Restoration? So it really IS a case of like father like son... :angry5:

Also, I don't think Marie Therese Charlotte EVER trusted the Orleans family after what happened during the Revolution. How right was she!!!

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"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom, for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

From the Declaration of Arbroath (Scottish Declaration of Independence), 1320.


Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:20 am
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Post Re: Philippe-Egalité
Louis-Philippe (The Duc de Chartres, Duc d'Orléans after his father's death) didn't usurp the throne from Charles X in 1830, at least I don't believe so. Charles X had acted foolishly from the beginning of his reign, not understanding the changes that had occurred in France since 1789. When he became King in 1824, he made a state entry into Paris to popular acclaim. Yet less than eight months after that, popular mood in the capital had changed because of two things:

- The Anti-Sacrilege Act was passed into law and signed by Charles; this imposed the death penalty on anyone profaning the sacred Hosts of the Catholic church. Many saw this as a violation of religious freedom granted by the Charter of 1814; and pandering to the Catholic Church by the King and his new ministry.

- Provisions for financial indemnities for properties confiscated by the 1789 Revolution and the Empire of Napoleon. These indemnities could be paid to anyone, noble or not who had been declared an "enemy of the revolution." This was far more opportunistic, because since 1814 many groups to settle matters of property ownership, to reduce or eliminate the uncertainties of the real estate market in Paris and indeed, France. Liberal critics of the King, mostly Bonapartists, began to whisper that the King only proposed this to shame those who had not emigrated.

Through his short reign, the King and his ministry slowly became less popular, while that of the Legislature (both the Chamber of Deputies and Peers), became more popular. In 1827 upon inspecting the Garde Royale at Champ de Mars, the King was greeted with silence; many refused to even take off their hats for the King. Charles later told the Duc d'Orléans (Louis-Philippe!) that, "Although most people present were not too hostile, some looked at times with terrible expressions."

These troubles only grew worse; by 1830, compelled what he believed to be radicalism in the elected government, Charles X and Jules de Polignac (the Prime Minister at the time), decreed the July Ordinances. Charles believed that it was his duty to secure order for the French people, what he believed was being undermined by his political enemies.

Charles announced the July Ordinances in compliance with article 14 of the French Charter, what he believed to be his interpretation, and that henceforth he would govern by them. The Ordinances set down the following:

- Suspended the liberty of the press
- Appointed new, and what many considered reactionary, Conseillers d'Etat
- Dissolved the newly elected Chamber of Deputies
- Reduced the number of deputies in future Chambers
- Summoned new electoral colleges for September of that year
- Withdrew the Deputies' right of amendment
- Excluded the commercial bourgeoisie from future elections

They were intended to quiet the French people but instead angered them, resulting in the July Revolution, the "three glorious days." Charles X had named Louis-Philippe Lieutenant-General of the Kingdom, and abdicated in favor of the Duc d'Angoulême, his son. Angoulême was King for only twenty minutes, and he abdicated in favor of the Duc de Bordeaux (born in 1820). Charles entrusted Louis-Philippe to tell the Deputies his desire to have his grandson succeed him, which he did not--but nevertheless, the Legislature refused to accept Bordeaux as King and declared the Duke of Orléans King of France.

While he did betray Charles X in a way, I don't see it as a usurpation...if Charles X had simply acted more cautiously like his brother Louis XVIII, he might've saved the throne for himself and the senior branch of the House of Bourbon.

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Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:19 am
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