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 Dangerous Liaisons 
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
Rosalie wrote:
I watched the movie some nights ago and it touched me deeply. In the end I even cried for Mme de Tourvel, which I didn't do for the book, probably because in a movie you have the scene just before your eyes, so in a way it's more immediate.

I didn’t cry while watching the movie (I was very close when she said “That’s enough, draw the curtains” and when they closed her eyes in the end… all right maybe there was a tear or two even I rarely cry! *except when I read :mrgreen: ). Still I was devastated after reading the book. That is because I pay a lot of attention to some small details giving them much significance. For example that description how Turvel spent her first day in the convent hurt me more than her last days. I can’t remember clearly, but it was when she, during the dinner maybe, for a moment got lost in her thoughts, making some painful gesture. I can’t remember clearly but it was something like that and I was so sympathetic, knowing her pain. And with every little detail like that… I felt like her, like that was happening to me. Also, in the book Anna Karenina, nothing moved me more than a moment when a servant told Vronsky that she went to bed early because a headache! That is because I have the same excuse of a headache (often not always!) when facing some emotional difficulties. I am a lunatic with these details, I know, I always see myself in the lives of people I read about! That’s why I am so passionate about acting! :love:

I like all the actors and the fact that they are not conventionally beautiful (Merteuil and Valmont) which is often used as a remark. Since I am convinced that the beauty itself is not crucial at all for someone to be seductive, irresistible, I really liked that the movie showed that too. At least I found John Malkovich perfect as Valmont, charming, proud, confident despite his maybe not perfect features. I found Glen Close perfectly wicked as Merteuil too.

Rosalie wrote:
As for Volanges, I found her last (or next to last) letter heartbreaking, where she tries to convince herself that she can still save Cécile from her sad destiny of being closed in a convent, and wants to think until the end that her daughter has just compromised herself with Valmont.

You probably mean Danceny. :wink:
There is one (last) when she is writing to her friend, trying to explain, understand all the tragedies that had happened… I was so sad reading it. I had some hard feeling of weakness for a whole week.

Rosalie wrote:
Which leads me to my next questions: according to you all, why did he give Danceny the letters from Merteuil, in the end? I think there are two possible meanings of this act. One can be that he just wanted his revenge on the woman who caused his death; the other one, that he actually "repented", at least as was possible for him (and this is the interpretation the movie gives). Maybe it's both...but I'm quite curious about this.

Well… smart question! Little bit of both I believe but more rage and revenge. He sacrificed the woman he loved for Marquise. In order not to feel completely as a loser he wanted that night that Merteuil had promised to him… and she dared to refuse. When you give such a big sacrifice naturally you want something in return. When Merteuil refused Valmont he turned out to be a double fool. Not only that he gave up the woman he loved because his “reputation”, fear of being ridiculed, but the proof he gave to Marquise was completely useless, because then Merteuil started to make fun of him, refusing to give him an award that he expected, as a desperately needed proof of his own, lost powers. I was laughing reading the letter in which Merteuil criticizes him, wanting to see that old charm, encouraging him to keep up fighting for her attention, like all the other admirers… Still I wonder would Valmont be able to keep up with his normal “routine” if he got the promised night… At the time of the duel, I believe he really had enough of everything.

Rosalie wrote:
Maybe, in a way, I'd like to save Valmont, in the end

I would if I knew that he would go straight to Madame de Tourvel! :angel10:
In the movie I got the comfort of knowing that Danceny told Madame de Tourvel that last words of Valmont. Not in the book! There was one letter, at the end of the book, that wasn’t included because it “would give us a different shade on the Valmont’s character” :angry1: . In that letter he prays Madame de Volanges to help Madame de Tourvel. Anyway I would save Valmont because some other things too. Remember how he saved that lady with who he managed to spend the night despite her husband and a lover, how he solved that problem with the door! And then, when poor Cecile got frightened by some strange noise (when she lost her baby), how he took his sword in case to defend her?! Still, too many things to make me sign the death sentence too!

Rosalie wrote:
I find her very similar to me, in many respects. I'm also very spontaneous and can't realy control my feelings. But I live in another epoch, so, in case something similar happened to me, I think I would be more protected in a way. But she was a woman who wasn't trained to deal with feelings and passion: she also knew how to be good wife and mother, and was taught to consider passion a dangerous thing. So her destiny was very sad :(

Even today, I don’t think I would be able to react differently, if the case was the same, if I loved that much and if I was hurt that way. I rarely react with rage, thirst for revenge… I have my moments :twisted: but I believe I couldn’t react the same if the person was very dear to me, no matter what it did to me. I would rather retreat in silence, despite the pain and disappointment, just like her. I wouldn’t be able to do more and overcome that first shock. :(

I have to thank you for this discussion! I can’t describe how happy I am to read your observations! :angel3:

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Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:32 am
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
I must say the same to you, Marja: I like discussiong books!


Marija Vera wrote:
Still I was devastated after reading the book. That is because I pay a lot of attention to some small details giving them much significance. For example that description how Turvel spent her first day in the convent hurt me more than her last days. I can’t remember clearly, but it was when she, during the dinner maybe, for a moment got lost in her thoughts, making some painful gesture. I can’t remember clearly but it was something like that and I was so sympathetic, knowing her pain. And with every little detail like that… I felt like her, like that was happening to me.


I see what you mean. I aslo rarely cry for movies, but often for books, because books are a form of expression that touches me more deeply; but in this case, I don't know why, I cried while watching the movie.

Marja Vera wrote:
I like all the actors and the fact that they are not conventionally beautiful (Merteuil and Valmont) which is often used as a remark. Since I am convinced that the beauty itself is not crucial at all for someone to be seductive, irresistible, I really liked that the movie showed that too. At least I found John Malkovich perfect as Valmont, charming, proud, confident despite his maybe not perfect features. I found Glen Close perfectly wicked as Merteuil too.


I also absolutely liked John Malkovich as Valmont. I find him very charming in that movie, and he has the right personality. While for Glenn Close...I don't know, I can't find her as charming, not because of physical beauty, but probably, as I said, because I had a different picture of Merteuil in my mind. But of course she is very good and "wicked" :wink:

marja Vera wrote:
Rosalie wrote:
As for Volanges, I found her last (or next to last) letter heartbreaking, where she tries to convince herself that she can still save Cécile from her sad destiny of being closed in a convent, and wants to think until the end that her daughter has just compromised herself with Valmont.

You probably mean Danceny. :wink:


Of course I meant Danceny :mrgreen: And I found that particular heartbreaking! She still wanted to think that Cècile could be happy by marrying Danceny and forget all the bad experiences...it's very like a mother behaviour.

Marja Vera wrote:

Well… smart question! Little bit of both I believe but more rage and revenge. He sacrificed the woman he loved for Marquise. In order not to feel completely as a loser he wanted that night that Merteuil had promised to him… and she dared to refuse. When you give such a big sacrifice naturally you want something in return. When Merteuil refused Valmont he turned out to be a double fool. Not only that he gave up the woman he loved because his “reputation”, fear of being ridiculed, but the proof he gave to Marquise was completely useless, because then Merteuil started to make fun of him, refusing to give him an award that he expected, as a desperately needed proof of his own, lost powers. I was laughing reading the letter in which Merteuil criticizes him, wanting to see that old charm, encouraging him to keep up fighting for her attention, like all the other admirers… Still I wonder would Valmont be able to keep up with his normal “routine” if he got the promised night… At the time of the duel, I believe he really had enough of everything.


Yes, it was as I figured it! I think rage was the strongest feeling for him, and in the end he felt tricked. You're completely, right, when she teases him in her letter he probably felt like another one who had been fooled by the Marquise. He "lost" to her this time.
What would he do had he lived?...This is a very interesting question. My opinion is: he would get tired of life. He would probably have gone on with hs previous life at the beginning, but without enjoying it. Then he would either have turned into some completely cynical and solitary person, or lost his restraints and devote himself to a life of dull pleasures...In both cases, he would have "died" all the same, if you understand what I mean.

In the end, I find him a charming character, and, all his faults notwithstanding, I can't help being sympathetic wtih him in a way...Maybe because he is a victim in the end. I think he is not REALLY wicked, he is just weak. He lives for himself and his reputation, and doesn't really go over this.

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Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:52 pm
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
I agree with you. He would continue the same but it wouldn’t be the same. I think he would feel terrible for what he did to a woman he loved. I believe that was one of those experiences that change you completely.

Rosalie wrote:
In the end, I find him a charming character, and, all his faults notwithstanding, I can't help being sympathetic wtih him in a way...

He just seduced both of us… :wink:


Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:15 pm
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
Ahahah, yes, we're just his last victims :wink:

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Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:39 pm
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
Hard to resist him… :lol:

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Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:45 pm
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
Hahahahahahaha

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Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:29 am
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
Yes...Very hard, and in the end, who wanted to resist? :wink:

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Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:21 pm
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
You are reading my mind! :biggrin:
Attachment:
Vikont de Valmont.jpg
Vikont de Valmont.jpg [ 9.96 KiB | Viewed 2904 times ]

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Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:45 pm
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
wow...this is a very inspiring picture!!!! Gorgeous!

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Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:22 pm
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
I know, I have a few! :wink:

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Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:04 am
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
I'm waiting for the tohers, then!!! :D

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Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:30 pm
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
Here is something from the movie then! 8)
Attachment:
Vikont, Turvel.jpg
Vikont, Turvel.jpg [ 21.21 KiB | Viewed 2874 times ]
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les_liaisons_dangereuses_dangerous_liaisons_1988_reference14.jpg [ 34.83 KiB | Viewed 2874 times ]
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les_liaisons_dangereuses_dangerous_liaisons_1988_reference2.jpg
les_liaisons_dangereuses_dangerous_liaisons_1988_reference2.jpg [ 27.37 KiB | Viewed 2874 times ]

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If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. St. Francis of Assisi


Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:31 pm
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
Wow, the first one is lovely...there are the two of them together :) What is happening? I can't remember the exact moment...

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Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:42 pm
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
When he is leaving her saying it’s beyond my control. :( How is that translated in your book? In mine, from french to serbian and now to english, it would be something like it’s not my fault. :?:

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Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:59 am
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Post Re: Dangerous Liaisons
Oh yes...what a sad moment! :cry: It alost broke my heart as well!
In Italian it's translated as "it's not my fault" (non è colpa mia).
You know, when I watched the movie I also wondered what's the French expression...does anyone know?

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Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:19 pm
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