I think it reasonably plausible that the necklace affair was an intentional attempt on behalf of the freemasons and their spiritual leader in France, the Duc d'Orléans, to discredit the Queen and through her the King, and in so doing bring down the Bourbons. Afer all the Duc d'Orléans was always with Cagliostro who knew Lamotte and who found Nicole Leguay, whose commonly known ressemblance to the Queen brought her good trade in the arcades of the Palais Royale. Perhaps the Duc himself had already seen her, after all the arcades were part of his palace grounds and belonged to him...maybe the thought dawned on him then during a stroll in the gardens when someone pointed out the fair Nicole to him and asked him who she reminded him of....

My post is not really in the right place. Perhaps one of the moderators could kindly replace in its proper setting?!

Yes Adrienne or Délicate fleur maybe could help you Baron.

Here is something for the topic.

Marie Joséphine of Savoy, comtesse de Provence.


Shouldn’t be hard to find more about them *artist, date so I could add when I have more time. I like the second.

In the first portrait she looks lovely; how old was she? She looks very young...In the other two she looks much less pretty; actually, I read she wasn't that she wasn't really a beauty, but maybe I'm mistaken

It would be nice to know! Rosalie, I think you can adjudge her age by the stlye of her dress. She was a lovely child.

I found some informations on the other two paintings.

The second portrait is made by Jean-Baptiste Guatier D'agoty in 1775.

The last one is Portrait of Louise Marie Josephine de Savoie, Comtesse de Provence, by Joseph Boze (1744-1826). It can be seen in London,in the Private Collection Rafael Valls Gallery. From 1790.

Thank you

Yes, I think in the first one she had to be 10 or 11...I don't know, but it could be.
Beautiful portraits, anyway!

Yes they are! Especially the first one. You think this portrait is form the mid 1760's?
Sure, its artist will turn out soon by the help of Marija!

Must do a little research, I dont have my old gallery in the lap top I use here in Paris... Still I can always post some photos of paintings from museums!

Yes, it could be from the mid 60s...the age would also fit. We're waiting for further information!

I could find only the site, in French, but I don’t see the information we need. From other portraits I`ve seen I don’t think she was a great beauty either but I like that portrait of her when young. Beautiful girl.

http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=h ... r%26um%3D1

I think that Comtesse d`Artois looks nice here, same painter who did the second portrait and the same year, Gautier Dagoty 1775. Concept is quite similar.

quote Elle..........You know Le Brun' s landscapes really do seem more as "back drops". Now that you mention it! end quote.

Going back a century Van Dyke was a brilliant portrait painter with the fine
clothes and silks of the aristocracy brilliantly depicted.... but check out the backgrounds...
they are abysmal.... usually a column or a poor attempt at landscape....
Reynolds and Gainsborough
beat him for background and settings every time.

doubt its by an 18th cent artist, but a stylish
painting despite that



It would make a great jigsaw, imagine the hours
you could while away on those long winter nights !

It is very lovely, however I don't think it is originally from 18th century, neither.
Thanks for posting, its colours are refreshing

According to the information from the Fraser’s biography, neither Comtesse de Provence or Comtesse de Artois were beauties, even on some portraits they could appear quite charming.

“Josephine, who at 18 was over 3 years older than her husband, was small, plain, with a sallow skin and with what Louis XV unkindly described in a letter to his grandson in Parma as “a villainous nose”.

A subsequent ambassador to France from Savoy had to ask Josephine’s father, Victor Amadeus III, to drop a hint about the necessity for a careful toilette, in particular with regard to her teeth and hair “It is embarrassing for me to discuss such things,” admitted the ambassador, “but these mere details to us are vital matters in this country”.

I also read elsewhere that Comtesse de Provence had a problem with hygiene, but that she smelled unpleasant, still it wasn’t from some reliable source.

About young Comtesse d’Artois-

“Mercy, who never erred on the side of generosity where Savoyards were concerned, described her as being silent and interested in absolutely nothing. Furthermore her posture was hopeless, her bearing without grace and she was a clumsy dancer. She was extremely small and burdened, like her sister Josephine, with an exceptionally long nose; a cruel English observer would later describe her as looking like “a starved witch”. At least the French king was pleased to note that Thérèse had a good complexion, and, his favourite area of contemplation, a good bosom.”

Even this picture doesn’t seem the 18th century, it surely has it’s spirit!

First of all.... about the Comtesse de Provence and Comtesse de Artois. Although I think the portrait in white of the comtesse de Provence is really quite beautiful. But it is after all a portrait and of such an important person to please. Hence the vanishing nose perhaps...and the sallow complexion.

On Friday I was very happy to go to an exibit in Fort Worth at the Kimbell art Museum. The exibit was comprised of works by famous Artists that have been hanging in private homes in Texas. I was very happy to see both Reynolds and Gainsborough's work...and the Gainsborough that I saw had a lovely background...but what was very strange about it was the 3D effect of some of the mans clothing...I actually got right under the painting to check if the shoulder embelishment did indeed stick out..(which it did not) I also was thrilled to see the self portrait of Madame Vigee Lebrun, which was Annok's avatar for sometime last year.

The collection also had the wonderful terra cotta bust of Voltaire by Jean-Antoine Houdon (which had been sitting in the most beautifully elegant 18th century french styled salon in Houston Texas.) This was an extremely wonderful piece as it was from a life mask and in the back were it was hollowed out, besides finger prints there was the clear hand inscribed "Houdon". Most of the Art in the exibit was photographed in the home it came from and that picture hung next to the piece. I can only imagine how thrilled I will be when I can go to Versailles and also to see every thing in the Louvre..