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 What was this 'petit' operation'? 
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Comte/Comtesse
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
The latest book I've read that included this subject said that the marriage was consummated alright, but Louis didn't know how to ejaculate. Marie-Antoinette's brother Joseph came to investigate the situation and brought about those medical examinations. Then he took Louis off in the garden for a walk and told him what to do. Some months later, Marie became pregnant. This is documented. Joseph wrote home to his mother in absolute astonishment about the situation. His actual words aren't meant for family reading, so I won't repeat them here.

None of my friends can believe a teenage boy didn't know what to do. But this is royalty we are talking about, and I think most people at the time were reluctant to discuss such things with august persons, and Louis was preoccupied with other interests and didn't or couldn't figure it out on his own. This reluctance to discuss intimate subjects also surrounded Queen Victoria and Albert. She was dismayed when the doctor told her to stop having babies, because she liked sex a lot. There were methods of birth control available to her, but no one seems to have been willing to discuss them with her.


Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:40 am
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Hello all,
Checking medical sites explains that surgery for phimosis can be as much as circumsion or as little as a nick in a spot where the foreskin is tight. The 'nick' seems a likely candidate as his recovery was quick and within a few months the couple were expecting their first child.

After 7 years (sex would have had to wait for MA's system to mature and produce menses) something significant occurred. It doesn't seem at all likely that the young couple suddenly got it right. :wave:
Susana


Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:41 am
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Post Re:
Louis-Charles wrote:
This operation is not sure for all the historians….Louis XVI had a phymosis, but nobody knows if he was really operated… :?

I really this the operation was a excuse created to justify the situation with the marriage.
I think, since Louis was a very sensible man and child, he was shocked by the behaviour of his granfather who had fight with his son ( louis'father) on lover affairs, his grandfhater had a loto of scandal caused by incedible numbers of lovers.
SO, he was so shocked by sex affairs that he had a -stop- in his mind and consequentelly in his body.

This is my opinion :angel1:


Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:04 am
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
No-one can be sure if he ever had this operation. Successive consultations with his doctor showed nothing wrong with him "down below". And can one really believe that a man who was accustomed to hearing of the sexual antics of his grandfather didn't know how to finish things off in bed with his wife? If we are to believe the famous letter by Joseph II, then that is the case. I put it down to the fact that Louis did not enjoy sleeping with MA, and it positively disgusted her, to a point where she is known to have locked her door to him! Unheard of before from a Queen of France! So maybe Joseph's arrival at Versailles and his frank talking to her inspired her to encourage her husband in bed! And once she did well he clearly got a taste for it! It may be that Joseph threatened MA with the possibility that she could be removed to a convent or be forced to return to Vienna. One thing is sure, he told her that the King was being pushed my many at court to take an official mistress. Louis XVI and MA knew where babies come from: this failure to procreate was the result of a profound lack of understanding in bed, she being blatantly unkeen and he being far too respectful to the point of no doubt actually masturbating next to her to allay his frustration!

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Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:56 am
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
He probably had wet dreams, since the servants found seminal stains on the sheets.

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Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:40 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
I probably shouldn't make this face right here: :shock:. But it isn't too surprising taking the context into consideration.

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Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:01 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Not at all. :rainbow:

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Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:54 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
I doubt he had wet dreams. They are more the subject of early adolesence. A man of his roughness would have satsfied himself I think, if nothing else out of sheer frustration and rage at having been left unsatisfied once more...the term used by Joseph, "pollutions", is also used by De Sade in his "Philosophie du Boudoir" (which I have just procured and I am loving so far :lol: ) to describe ejaculation as a generic term.

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Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:46 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
My dear Baron, masturbation was and is considered a serious sin for Catholics and knowing how scrupulous Louis engaging in such behavior. Madame Bertiere suggests that the stains were from Louis attempting intercourse with his wife but being unable to penetrate her.

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Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:28 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
I'm sorry Thérèse but I'm too experienced in that domain to swallow that explanation! :lol:

And I'm a man and Mme Bertière, whom I have met is an elderly, if very elegant, lady!

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Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:32 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
So masturbation is still considered to be a sin by Catholics?!

How ridiculous! :)

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Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:35 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Haven't you read Madame Bertiere's book?

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Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:49 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
baron de batz wrote:
So masturbation is still considered to be a sin by Catholics?!

How ridiculous! :)


My dear Baron, I fear you are revealing to much about yourself. :o

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Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:51 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Madame!! :lol:

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Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:42 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
I have indeed read Mme Bertière's book.

However that may well be one thing she's wrong about! :wink:

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Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:44 pm
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