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 What was this 'petit' operation'? 
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
I thought the constant emphasis on masturbation was over the top and disrespectful to Louis XVI. I also thought the vicious attack on the Catholic religion, the religion of Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette, was uncalled for.

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Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:07 am
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Lilly, Marija, I am unable to read your posts, I had hoped that the administrator log might contain copies that I could review. Based on what Lilly has told me it would seem that Therese has been hasty with the deletion button.

Therese, I'm concerned at the unilateral deletion of posts by two long term and highly regarded board members, one a moderator also. These are not spammers or members who take pleasure in provoking upset on these boards, as I thought you might realise.

It seems to me highly unlikely that what was posted was inappropriate or off topic (although I did not get a chance to read the posts myself) For what it's worth, I believe that the Catholic religion ought be robust enough to withstand questions and criticism on a humble internet discussion board and would benefit from a lively defence rather than censorship, don't you agree? Further, this entire topic deals with sexual relationship between Louis and Antoinette and discussion of their sexual habits, including masturbation would seem to be in keeping.

Please ladies and gentlemen, if you're still in the mood, return to the topic and hand. And Therese, no more deletions please ...

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Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:28 am
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Therese wrote:
I thought the constant emphasis on masturbation was over the top and disrespectful to Louis XVI. I also thought the vicious attack on the Catholic religion, the religion of Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette, was uncalled for.


Do you say "attack"? I'd rather called it "opinion".

I don't think that their argumentation was disrespectful to Louis. Do you think of men from the dix-huitième as statues made of porcelain? They were flesh and blood just like us. Possibly it hurt you but these men and women expressed their sexuality in a varied way and it does contain masturbation. Louis XVI was religious that means he lived a honorable life as a king, as an individual. As a matter of fact, does it count whether he masturbated or not? And if he did, so what?

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Last edited by Anouk on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:36 am
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
I will be very frank with you Thérèse.

I think you just did yourself a great disservice by censoring those posts (which I therefore couldn't read).

I was pleased to see that you were back on the forum, because with your knowledge you have a great deal to offer. However I would like to give you a word of advice: you're in the 21st century now, these are the days of wiki leaks and you tube, and people don't take kindly to such censorship. I hope that you will continue to post, but put your Catholic hang ups and your sexual moralizing behind you, and you will find that discussion is a far more effective way of making your point than censorship. Remember what Jesus said to the disciples about Mary Magdalene. What better example can you find of someone willing to discuss with anyone, whatever their views or practices? So let's hope we can continue discussing and that we'll see you back here contributing as you know how to. This forum needs input and your's is important, as you put different views to some here.

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Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:14 am
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
[quote="baron de batz"]There is no problem to produce that letter. I just have to translate it first.

I cannot agree with you that the King of France would have opened up like that on such private matters to his brother in law. And also that the grandson of one of the most debauched Kings ever known should not have been aware of what it takes to make babies! The Royal Couple was also besieged by erotic pamphlets , calling Louis a "mauvais fouteur" and saying he didn't know what it was for!!



As you know Louis had a weak character, he would have obey to eveyone with a little strong behavoiur.
And since her sister was menaced to be sent back to Austria the emperor used a strong behavoiur with the king.
Being between men, no motivation to be ashamed , I suppose.


Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:01 am
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Now, I will address this. Anyone is free to comment on anything that I might post, but having the right to delete another member's post is unacceptable behavior. I agree 100% that you have done yourself a dis-serivce here.

For the record: I wrote - in response to it being said that masturbation was a sin in the Catholic church then and now - and after Baron said that was ridiculous:

Louis XVI was a Man. Men masturbate. Catholic or not. Sin or not.
You'd think that peophilia would be a sin in the church too, huh?

There is no constant reference to masturbation, no disrespect of anybody, and no vicious attack on any church. The remark about the church was to illustrate that the church has more to worry about today than masturbation.

I would suggest in the future, Therese, that it be remembered that an opinion other than your own, does NOT constitute a wrong opinion.

I think you owe us all an apology.


Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:29 am
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
I agree with Baron, Lilly and Adrienne but I will continue discussing the topic.

Baron, it would be great if you could translate the letter and post it as I tend to believe what was written there, but I can't remember clearly all the information. I really think the case was much more simple and that Louis XVI inexperience is to blame. Catharine the Great and Peter II had the same problem that lasted for much longer and it was a result of her husband's inexperience with women and later, when that changed, her husband's deliberate rejection.

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Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:48 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Anouk wrote:
Therese wrote:
I thought the constant emphasis on masturbation was over the top and disrespectful to Louis XVI. I also thought the vicious attack on the Catholic religion, the religion of Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette, was uncalled for.


Do you say "attack"? I'd rather called it "opinion".

I don't think that their argumentation was disrespectful to Louis. Do you think of men from the dix-huitième as statues made of porcelain? They were flesh and blood just like us. Possibly it hurt you but these men and women expressed their sexuality in a varied way and it does contain masturbation. Louis XVI was religious that means he lived a honorable life as a king, as an individual. As a matter of fact, does it count whether he masturbated or not? And if he did, so what?


This is exactly what I think.

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Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:50 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Ok Marija I'll ask the French forum to single it out for me, as I could take ages finding it. And then I'll give you the translation. Its' typically Joseph II: graphic, crude and to the point.

Princesse wrote:

As you know Louis had a weak character, he would have obey to eveyone with a little strong behavoiur.
And since her sister was menaced to be sent back to Austria the emperor used a strong behavoiur with the king.
Being between men, no motivation to be ashamed , I suppose.

I'm sorry Princesse, too simplistic for me.

I wouldn't agree that Louis XVI had a weak character. The more I read of him , the more complex his character seems. It is quite clear from his close working with his ministers that his word was the one that counted. He once said of one of his ministers, maybe Turgot I can't remember..."Mr Turgot want to be me, but I don't want him to be me!" He was in certain ways quite absolutist. Later in life he was clearly affected by depression, at which point the weakness of indecision crept into his character, and the fact that he was for once a King that actually knew and cared about his wife and children put him in a far more vulnerable position than Louis XIV or Louis XV, as the fomers' lives were constantly threatened. When making your mind up about Louis XVI be very careful not to listen the the old progaganda...he had his faults, he was not the right man to be King in some ways, but he was also a highly intelligent and talented man. I recommend Joel Felix's book on Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette.....a couple in politics. And if you read French and you have the courage the painstaking and lengthy book on the royal couple by the Girault de Coursac, which though far from perfect is an eye opener which knocks certain received ideas for six!

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Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:04 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Here goes! Hold on tight girls!!! :lol:

Dans son lit conjugal, il ( Loulou ) a des érections fort bien conditionnées, il introduit le membre, reste là sans se remuer deux minutes peut-être, se retire sans jamais décharger, toujours bandant, et souhaite le bonsoir . Cela ne se comprend pas, car avec cela, il a parfois des pollutions nocturnes, mais en place ni en faisant l'oeuvre jamais et il est content disant tout bonnement qu'il ne faisait cela que par devoir et qu'il n'y avait aucun goût.
Ah si j'aurais ( sic ) pu être présent une fois, je l'aurais bien arrangé, il faudrait le fouetter pour le faire décharger de foutre comme les ânes . Ma soeur avec cela a peu de tempérament et ils sont deux francs maladroits ensemble .

In his marital bed Louis has full strong erections, he puts in his member, leaves it in there for a couple of minutes maybe, without moving, pulls out without ever having come, still with a hard on, and says goodnight. It is hard to understand, what's more he sometimes has nocturnal pollutions, but never inside and on the job, and he's quite happy about the whole thing, saying that he was only doing it out of duty and not out of any pleasure.

Ah if I could only have been present just once, I would have sorted that out. He should be whipped to make him shoot his load like with a donkey! My sister has no temperament either, and basically they're just a couple of awkward losers together.


Can you honestly imagine any man (especially with a rather sexy and well endowed princess!) just leaving it inside without moving? And imagine telling your brother in law that that is what you do?!! This letter seems bogus to me!

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Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:09 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Yes... in case he already got to penetration it is hard to imagine that he had no inducement to move. Or... is it possible the royal couple could be unskillful like this?? I thought Maria Theresia enlightened her daughter not long before her departure to France.
The letter can be fake or not I find it amusing anyway :wink: merci Baron.

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Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:46 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
My instinct tells me that this is the truth and I believe in it 100%! :lol: Only for Baron this is too simple to be truth. Baron, think less about what YOU would do but what a shy man who didn't have experience with women or sexual education and who maybe felt that sex was just a duty might have done! :lol:

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Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:15 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
baron de batz wrote:
and he's quite happy about the whole thing, saying that he was only doing it out of duty and not out of any pleasure.


I have always thought that the problems were as much psychological as physical. Can't the pressure of all of this been enough to inhibit performance? Baron, help me here....

This letter does sound like something Joseph II would say, I found it rather comical.

I wondered also if MA had been told anything about relations between men and women before she came to France. If she did not realize the physical act itself - the idea may have been quite grotesque to her as well.
I knew a young girl from the middle east - she was sent here at 15 to marry her cousin - no one told her anything, and on her wedding night,
she was absolutely distraught at what she had to do. 15 is very young and it was not a pleasant experience for her and she did not like it. She did much crying for a long time.


Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:58 pm
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Hi all,


Baron have right.The Joseph II letter reveal the true.Louis XVI and probably Marie-Antoinette received a neglected sexual education.It's paradoxal that french historians propagated a very long time the Louis XVI <<phimosis>>legend. :king:


Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:39 am
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Post Re: What was this 'petit' operation'?
Merci Monsieur!

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:52 pm
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