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 Would you change or add anything 
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
If I only could chance one thing it would be that she sent her children away. Seriously, those childrens fate are worse than hers in a way since they are just children. I can sometimes hate her for that, why didn't she send them away? I know I would.

Even though I am not to sure I want to change anything else, if the revolution had not happend we wouldn't adored her so, since she might not had mature into the wonderful Queen and mother that makes her love her. She would probably faded away in history, only mentioned for the long time it took to consumate Louis and hers wedding.


Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:44 pm
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
She couldn't just "send away" the heir to the throne. Louis XVI was responsable for having let two or three chances to escape pass him by.

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Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:51 am
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
baron de batz wrote:
She couldn't just "send away" the heir to the throne. Louis XVI was responsable for having let two or three chances to escape pass him by.


Hm, well ofcourse she couldn't. But the logic of keeping the heir in a unstable country on the edge of a revolution is quite idiotic, isn't it? If you look at most "successful" revolutions the king (or president/empress/etc.) and his heir have been killed.
I must read deeper into this subject on why the king and goverment didn't send the children away.


Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:22 pm
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
Well Natalia I really haven't heard of members of Royal families sending their children to safety at that time, but good luck in your research! :)

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Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:21 pm
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
Natalia wrote:
Even though I am not to sure I want to change anything else, if the revolution had not happend we wouldn't adored her so, since she might not had mature into the wonderful Queen and mother that makes her love her. She would probably faded away in history, only mentioned for the long time it took to consumate Louis and hers wedding.


Well, I don't know, I think we would love her all the same, because she had already had a deep personal change, when she became a mother. I think wwe would like her tenderness and good taste for art, architecture and clothing. But it's true that, by a weird paradox, the Revolution allowed her to show her inner strength and courage, and furthermore provided her with a tragic aura that makes people get interested in her. Maybe it's always like that, people with a peaceful life don't attract other people's interest.

About her children, I also think she couldn't conceive sending them away. If she had before the monarchy was thrown down, that would have meant weakness or even worse an attack to the traditions of monarchy itself, because the royal couple's children were children of France and they couldn't be thought of in another country. And after 1792, well, it would have been impossible for them to move freely, let alone send their children away. Sad as it is, royal children counted as members of royal family much more than as children.

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Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:36 pm
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
Everybody knows the old saying about hindsight..... Louis and Antoinette did not have the benefit of knowing what the future would be. Nobody imagined at that time that France would murder its monarchy. It was unthinkable.


Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:48 pm
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
Well, I don't think it was that unthinkable considering it already happened in England. I have the feeling (without much evidence), that Louis XVI foresaw what was to happen long before his trial and sentence to death, and was ready to make the sacrifice of his life.
And I agree with Natalia, it shocks me that doing so, he also condemned his wife and children to the same fate.

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Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:18 am
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
I agree that the idea that the French could murder their monarchs did slowly become a reality to Louis, but at what exact point I'm not sure. He was seen to read the description of Charles I death in Hume's 'History of England" with great interest, which is a sign of what he feared. He started to identify with this poor monarch and tried no doubt to glean some advice from this book. Maybe after the events of the 5th and 6th October 1789 the possibility dawned on him. However as we know the fortunes of the monarchy at the Tuileries fluctuated, and the first Constitution recognized France as a monarchical state. It was difficult for Louis to know where he stood. As for his wife and children, he let them down by his indecision at various times when they could have fled. MA reproaches him this fact and makes him promise on the 6th October that the next time this situation arises he will take the opportunity to escape. Hence her fury with him at Dormans on the way back from Varennes when he refuses to accept the offer of help to escape with his family.

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Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:02 am
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
Ludy wrote:
Well, I don't think it was that unthinkable considering it already happened in England. I have the feeling (without much evidence), that Louis XVI foresaw what was to happen long before his trial and sentence to death, and was ready to make the sacrifice of his life.
And I agree with Natalia, it shocks me that doing so, he also condemned his wife and children to the same fate.


Charlies I was executed alone, without his family suffering the same or similar consequences. In fact, they were still accorded all the respect and benefits of royals. There really was no precedent in Europe for what took place during the French Revolution, particularly in regards to the Royal family and their treatment.


Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:46 pm
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
I agree. It was totally unprecedented, and what is more they did this to a foreign princess.

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Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:58 pm
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
Point well taken about Charles I. It seems to me impossible that Louis XVI never considered what was to happen to Marie-Antoinette, considering how overwhelmingly resented and despised she was . At least, Marie-Antoinette herself did feel that her life and the lives of her children were at stake.

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Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:43 pm
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
I think, the idea of sending her children away as opposed to not, is quite an interesting concept. It's exactly the point.

She must have had this enormous inner conflict: we can't say that she wouldn't just send her children away to safety - and essentially, it would have been an escape from death for Louis Charles.

We mustn't forget, too, that she also would have understood that her children would be brainwashed, particularly Louis Charles, in order to keep them from revolting or attempting to assert power. And it did happen: this was even seen in him preceding her execution, such as in the incest trial.

So she was not ignorant; the extraction of her children to a foreign but supporting country (who in reality were fearful of similar revolutions over-toppling their own monarchies, and eager to staunch France's belligerence) may well have secured their futures.

I think the key point is that she felt an enormous emotional, almost moral burden at certain stages, during the Revolution. The question may well have resounded in her: to send her children away to safety, or to keep them close to her and risk their futures?

And of course at the same time, she would be afraid that, should they be perhaps caught, it would be a repeat of what happened at and after Varennes. Imagine the impositions after such an incident, should it ever have happened: surely, she did not want them to undergo any sort of abasing event.

I suppose at the end of the day it was something she decided upon, and this simply was the result.

And that is the point of history, that what happened did happen; it's not always the right thing to do, to look back and speculate, because anything really could have happened. It could well have been worse - it's something we'll never know.

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Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:32 am
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Post Re: Would you change or add anything
Yes...I feel that there was little MA and her family could have done to stop the tide of revolution in France..."After me...the Deluge" said Louis' grandfather,Louis XV...MA and family paid with their lives for the mistakes of their ancestors...I wish they'd taken the opportunities to flee Paris in separate,faster coaches as had been advised...But history is what it is...


Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:26 pm
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