Of course these women of a certain social standing, unlike many women in our modern times, were brought up with a book in their hands and not an Iphone.....it makes all the difference. It is quite obvious that we are heading towards a society, wherein the great majority will be quite incapable of formulating any such thoughts in words, and as for "wit" or "esprit" (which has a wider sense in French) this will be quite beyond them. Most things will be reduced to the most simple expression, and where vocabulary fails, then swear words always creep in to fill the gap and extenuate the speaker's natural frustration at being so inarticulate. Foutre.....

Already when one reads such books as the "Les liasions dangéreuses" or the 18th century mémoires of a Besenval, Comte de Tilly, Prince de Ligne, Mme de la Tour de Pin etc, one experiences a whole new or rather old world of finely tuned incisively chiselled wit...such depth and beauty in language, like a concentrate compared to a diluted solution.

Well I was more alluding to the influence of feminism upon women, at least, in Western Europe which is noticeable in the very blunt way they speak about love.

As far as the decline in quality of the French language, it is a theme that is much bandied about.

I personnally have the feeling that the truth is much stretched, and that the comparison with the XVIII century is not fair. Indeed, back then, only a minority of the population in France spoke French, and an even smaller minority was actually able to write it. The same can be said about Italy and Germany, where what we now know as the German and italian languages were actually used solely in some regions up until the beginning of the XX century. So what you get to read was written solely by upper crust people, belonging to a very scanty minority. Nowadays, you may get the impression the the French or any language is on the wane because the generalisation of basic education enabled any one to express themselves publicly. I would however concede that the level of language used by the elite is lower than it used to be in the XVIII century, indeed. But then again, to what extent is the comparison fair ? There is also a secondary problem : we have lost the notion of what is art and what is not, what is literature and what is not.

I am afraid I have already written too much this question and that we are clearly beyond the scope of this topic.

Although the decline of the French language is obvious in the grammar that we now use. It is funny how in school my English teacher spent hours harking back to the difference between the preterit and the present perfect, although the very same difference exists in the French language (passé simple / passé composé). But nowdays pupils, who are in fact unable to use the passé simple properly, would not get it if explained that way. And I am not mentioning my dear imparfait du subjonctif.

Would you like to open up a new topic on any of these subjects? S'il vous plaît, n'hésitez pas.

I am afraid it would end up being a discussion between myself and myself !

True that one can hardly raise to your level (how intelligent and well read you are) but baron already did a good job and I am gathering my strength to join your duel.

Thank you very much for this lovely compliment ! I merely meant that I am not sure such a topic is of any interest to anyone but me. But after all, I am always ready for a duel...

Never heard of a female female duel, but then I guess you could pull hair and scratch each other's eyes out.....

That was a deliberately totally sexist comment and not to be take at all seriously by the way!!

I'm always on for an intellecual duel! What was the subject again?!!

Ah yes the decline of intellectual standards, paricularly articulacy...

Well firstly I agree that in the 18th century there were much fewer people who could read and write than now, but the educated elite left us miles behind!! And look at craftsman...we simply cannot do what they did anymore....the works of art and pieces of furniture/precious objects we see in museums will never more be matched perhaps.

Rolling over in dirt in tiny tops and pulling each other's hair was so far out of my mind!
But I could dress in clothes of a noble gentlemen and demand satisfaction from you baron, with swards, in an old style. But this time I meant just discussing!

I like giving satisfaction to the opposite sex Marija.....

I'm on a business trip for the next 10 days so don't know if I'll have Internet access to post....so if not see you all soon!

It is good Baron ! except that you'll never get to know how satisfied the other sex is, which brings us back to our previous conversation !

So much about the intellectual standards...

I will get back to this one, don't you worry.

Well you demanded satisfaction!! So pistols out and at the ready!!