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 Mozart and Marie Antoinette 
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If you've seen the movie Amadeus, Joseph II of Austria talks about young Mozart's recital at the palace and Antoinette.


Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:13 am
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Antoinette may also have kept a certain distance from Mozart because he was a Freemason. Maria Theresa disapproved of Freemasonry - I think she was quite suspicious of it - and may very well have forbade her daughter from associating with members except when doing so was unavoidable. My opinion, at least...

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Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:16 am
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Maybe... But Joseph II was a freemason, as well as Marie-Caroline... Madame de Lamballe was too, and even madame de Polignac may have had a connection with freemasonry. Fersen was, too.

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Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:22 pm
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The freemason connection would not have kept her from Mozart, since many in her family and in Louis' family were masons. It was very vogue to be a mason in those days.

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Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:25 pm
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Yes, it certainly does seem to have been 'in vogue.' I know I'm changing the subject here but, Was Marie Antoinette at all interested in freemasonry, despite her staunch Catholic upbringing? Many of her friends seem to have been. :)
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Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:01 pm
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It's true that Joseph II, Lamballe, Polignac and the Duc d'Orleans were freemasonry.
But Marie-Antoinette I don't think, or then she was interested by the freemasonry very discreetly.
But nothing in his letters to his mother or others lets suppose it . :?

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Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:13 pm
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That is true, L-C. She may have discreetly visited a lodge with Lamballe to honor some civic accomplishment, but Louis would never have allowed her to join, if she had even been so inclined.

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Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:26 pm
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Fersen was a Freemason too? I didn't know that!

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Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:44 am
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Yes, he probably went to one meeting to make the king of Sweden happy.

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Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:28 pm
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Marie was always uncomfortable with freemasons. She actually warned the country of France about it, how evil it was in some way.


Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:22 pm
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I think that Marie-Antoinette was in some way influenced by the thought of her mother Maria Theresia. Infact when young Wolfgang did the tournées in Italy in 1770s looking for a job in an Italian court Maria Theresia wrote a letter to her son Ferdinando (who was governor in Milano) and in order to advise him against engaging the young composer. She described Mozart and his family as beggars :cry: , and she gave the same opinion to her eldest son, Emperor Joseph. That's sad, but it's history! :roll:

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Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:54 pm
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Yes, sometimes it is hard for people to see genius!

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Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:57 pm
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Of course, for only time makes the difference... and yet ? How many unknow genius composers were there ? We know Mozart, we know Bach... what about the other ones, who died in silence ?

What is a genius, after all ? Why do we love Mozart ? I do too, so much, I am only asking here, for I know very sensitive and erudite people who don't. I also deeply admire Wagner, his music sounds to me cosmic. So many people hate him.

On the contrary, I can't listen to Schubert's impromptus. I am sorry... I don't know why. I am not receptive to Beethoven either.

I would be tempted to say that Mozart had something more... genius. But what about those people who don't like his music ?

All this to say that, by the time Marie Antoinette was queen of France, Mozart was not considered a genius. She did not notice him, even if Austrian... but she noticed Gluck, she noticed Salieri, Gretry, Piccini...

Many of us have forgotten about them... focusing on Mozart only...

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Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:09 pm
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I agree, Pimprenelle!

Oh, I thought she did like him a bit, but not as much she liked Gluck, etc. Even Joseph gave him some concerts....

I like Mozart because his music captures the spirit of that time, the joie de vivre, the beauty of living....

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Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:15 pm
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I especially admire his requiem. Wonderful... Amadeus portraies the composing of his confutatis amazingly ! It is my favorite scene in this movie. These two composers' souls communicating through a music they hear in their heads... Fascinating !

And the compostion that is analysed for us uniniated people... Oh, I feel like watching it again !

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Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:22 pm
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