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 Nasty Phampleteers 
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You're right Therese!

And in this time, Marie-Antoinette really tried to have a son with Louis XVI to ensure the descent of the kingdom... thus she wanted during this time to approach her husband ... it was not the moment to do things with Polignac. :?
Moreover Polignac did not seem either to love the women. :D

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Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:10 pm
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Louis-Charles wrote:
Torin wrote :

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It is a strong argument/prove if she wrote the truth, Louis Charles. Anyway I think we will never get the real truth. Even if she had too much close relationship with Poligniac, I don't think she would confess herself guity to her mother.


Indeed, but the probability that she lied to her mother in this letter is very weak so much... that I do not believe in it. And the way in which Marie-Antoinette reacted to this lampoon shows that she did not have relations in love with Polignac. Because she reacted with humour, and she was not concerned with it... if she really had relations with Polignac, she would have been inevitably frightened, because her place of Queen would have been then compromised. :D

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Bye the way, the most stupid information I have read lately in press is that the queen wanted to poison the king. What an absurd

It is sure! Her who accompanied Louis XVI all her life...
Another which amuses me much by its silly thing is the lampoon which says that Marie-Antoinette had relations in love with LaFayette... her who hated the "Blondinet" as she called him!


Yes, Chou-Charles, I agree with all that you say. There is as much evidence that she had an affair with Lafayette, Fersen, Gabrielle or anyone else as there is that she tried to poison Louis XVI. All assumptions are based upon calumies.

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Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:11 pm
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Therese wrote:
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All assumptions are based upon calumies.


Exact!

And even nowadays... to invent horrors on sexuality of the women is always the basic solution for some, in order to dirty their images :wink:

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Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:16 pm
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Louis-Charles wrote:
You're right Therese!

And in this time, Marie-Antoinette really tried to have a son with Louis XVI to ensure the descent of the kingdom... thus she wanted during this time to approach her husband ... it was not the moment to do things with Polignac. :?
Moreover Polignac did not seem either to love the women. :D


Very true!

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Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:19 pm
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Torin's point was that if there had been a relationship with Polignac she (Antoinette) wouldn't have written about it to her Mother. Seems reasonable to me!


Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:45 pm
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I think so Byron...but to my mind this question is useless because Marie-Antoinette did not have such relations with Polignac... we are sure about it to 99% :D

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Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:48 pm
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Another thing about the pamphlets is that many (most?) came from outside France. So Antoinette was chosen just because she made a good target, the same way celebrities make good targets today. Officially the pamphlets were forbidden, but you could buy them right outside the gates of Versailles.


Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:50 pm
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Exact Byron :D

And Marie-Antoinette was an ideal target because she was Queen, therefore in the center of everyone, she was young, and especially she was Austrian: from the country the more hated of French and Prussia. Her marital problems with her husband between 1770 and 1778 were known of all Europe... the rumours came from everywhere! :?

But much of lampoons also came from Versailles... certain ministers and Provence launched false rumours :?

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Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:54 pm
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Byron, Antoinette did have a relationship with Madame de Polignac which she was very open about with her mother. They were good friends. To say that she was silent with her mother about a possible sexual relationship with Gabrielle, Fersen, Lafayette, Artois does not mean that she was secretly involved. With such an outloook, one can speculate endlessly about things Antoinette did that she hid from her mother - such as flying in a ballooon- of which there is as much evidence as a liaison with Fersen, gabrielle, Lafayette, Artois, or anyone else.

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Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:02 pm
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I think all Torin was saying was that if there had been a sexual relationship, Antoinette wouldn't have told her Mother. Anyway, it was just an aside.


Last edited by Byron on Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:07 pm
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Louis-Charles wrote:
I think so Byron...but to my mind this question is useless because Marie-Antoinette did not have such relations with Polignac... we are sure about it to 99% :D


I have no better reply.

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Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:09 pm
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Byron wrote:
Another thing about the pamphlets is that many (most?) came from outside France. So Antoinette was chosen just because she made a good target, the same way celebrities make good targets today. Officially the pamphlets were forbidden, but you could buy them right outside the gates of Versailles.


Yes, that is true, many of them came from England. There is a new book about this; can't remember the name.

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Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:10 pm
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There is this book in french which deals with the relations between the pamphlets and Marie-Antoinette : "La reine scélérate", by Chantal Thomas :D
But I don't know if it has been translated...

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Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:14 pm
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We never cannot be sure any things especially for almost 99% if we mean history. :) , Louis Charles. And therefore we can discuss and exchange opinions. And it is fine. :)

Right Byron ! That was my point. There was no reasons for MA to inform her mother about eventual love affairs, especially that she was afraid a little of her mother. And for Marie Therese it could be a shock.

Anyway I don't want to say that MA had such a relationship, but sometimes I have impression that you want to express that MA was faithful to her husband all her life what is difficult to believe in the context of Fersen and generally usual life of human beings. But if so...well, the more respect to the queen !

By the way, it is not my dirty imagination :D , but I like discussing. :)


Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:14 pm
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99% sounds about right to me.


Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:15 pm
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